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Medical System Changes

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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:25 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Having a revive timer of 5 seconds is actually pointless. The prevent Insta death mechanic will kick in sending you unconscious on the first calculated fatal damage, if you then die from further damage, only then does revive system kick in. Having it kick in for 5 secs just puts you unconscious for 5 secs then actually kills you. It's pretty meaningless.

The way to make the revive system work is to set it so you don't have to stabilise before Paking (Paking being The Only Thing that gets you out of revive state), because paks become a fix all again, restricting them to vehicles and facilities limits their use til you have moved the patient.
The issue with revive when we had it last time was that you had to stabilise a patient in revive state before you could pak them. Meaning uncontrollable amount of injuries and would mean it'd be a waste of time to try. I'd like to run a mission with revive and paks set up as Ive stated and get some feedback from the group.

Slightly odd, talks to pixels.


Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:26 am     Super secret spam barrier
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End of the day i hate the insta death it hates me regardless of where the hell i am i die on the pubby Liam who has been my pilot when ive been on and NOFG is also my witness i sneeze inside of a nuclear bunker and i would still get dead i personally would be unconscious that instadeath also it means when people die they normally rearm which kinda puts the supplys to well useless and if a section is low on AT or AA boom when they come back oh look ROOOCKET oh nevermind sven died again...


Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:40 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:42 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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DangerousDiz wrote:
Having a revive timer of 5 seconds is actually pointless.
It might look that way, but the threshold you die i higher than having instadeath on.

Few of the tests i did back then was
a. one shot from rhs ak to the head from 5m
b. frag grenade at 1m
c. IED

Instadeath on:
a, b, c - player is  dead
Instadeath off + revive timer 5sec:
a and b - player is unconscious and stay unconscious after 5 sec. Player is loosing blood and will become dead when he will reach blood volume threshold. And here is where medic skill kicks in.
c - player is  dead after 5 sec

P.S. Usually Moeses gave me a hand with testing stuff. It is annoying to shoot yourself in Zeus mode and have controls locked up every time you die.


Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:32 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Mastero wrote:
DangerousDiz wrote:
Having a revive timer of 5 seconds is actually pointless.
It might look that way, but the threshold you die i higher than having instadeath on.

Few of the tests i did back then was
a. one shot from rhs ak to the head from 5m
b. frag grenade at 1m
c. IED

Instadeath on:
a, b, c - player is  dead
Instadeath off + revive timer 5sec:
a and b - player is unconscious and stay unconscious after 5 sec. Player is loosing blood and will become dead when he will reach blood volume threshold. And here is where medic skill kicks in.
c - player is  dead after 5 sec

P.S. Usually Moeses gave me a hand with testing stuff. It is annoying to shoot yourself in Zeus mode and have controls locked up every time you die.

I think there is a fundamental mis-understanding here of the two settings you are testing..
Let me try break it down (using my own terms for personal clarity and not going into how ARMA and  ACE determines whether damage is fatal)..

Prevent Insta Death -> This is a setting that will prevent Fatal Damage from Killing you while you are conscious, it is part of the 'Medical Simulation' and works together with the wounding and vitals system. It just interrupts the handle Damage code at the point where it finds you've taken fatal damage and is preparing to kill you, checks if you are conscious and sets you unconcious and exits the handle damage code whilst setting your returned damage to the magical 0.89 value (which is relevant in various other functions).

In layman's terms it basically says:

Ok, so that damage is fatal, are we preventing insta death?
yes..
ok then are they conscious?
yup..
ok good, knock them out and give them nearly fatal damage instead. 

If you are unconscious, damage is handled as normal as per the 'Medical Simulation Functions' and settings of ACE3 Medical. Ie: Damage that is calculated to be fatal, whilst unconscious, will set your 'Simulation State' to DEAD. As in...

Ok, so that damage is fatal, are we preventing insta death? 
yes.. 
ok then are they conscious? 
nope.. 
Well I guess this is goodbye... DEAD

Revive Module -> This is a separate state that takes over when the units 'Medical Simulation State' is set to DEAD by the 'Medical Simulation functions'. The options for it are:
Disabled / Enabled -> Don't or Do intercept the DEAD state. (Not counting AI settings)
Lives -> How many times in the same life can you be Revived.
Timer -> How long it will put you in the 'Suspended Revive State' before automatically killing the unit.

When its disabled it won't run the Revive code when you're set DEAD.
When Enabled it will intercept the Handle Damage Event Handler (The code in ACE Medical that fires when you take any type of damage) at the point you would die from being set DEAD, putting you into an unconcious state and starting a timer. Whilst in this state there are two types of treatment (for ADVANCED MEDICAL): CPR and PAK.
CPR will extend the Revive Timer by 0-20 secs (random), note: it also may reset your vitals to a minimum level but in advanced medical this will have no effect other than displaying those new vitals.
PAK will do what PAKs always do and totally fix the unit, waking them up with full health.

Damage taken whilst in the Revive State will still display wounds and add to current blood lose ect.. but once the Simulation would have set you as DEAD, it will ignore the killing part.

I see this guy has been assigned to DEAD pile...
Hold on is Revive Enabled and he has lives left?
Yup..
Ok lets take him out the Simulation and put him in the Revive Pile.. 
Ok Ill keep checking and counting down, if we get a CPR i'll add maybe 20secs..
Good, if they get a PAK wake him up and chuck him back into the Simulation.
Sure.. and if the timer runs out...
Kill the bugger...

Hopefully you can see that setting the Revive module to Enabled -> -1 (infinite Revives) -> 5 seconds will only delay the set DEAD state for 5 seconds before exiting and returning Fatal damage, thus making it effectively useless / highly unlikely to result in a successful revive. By completing a CPR within the 5 seconds you could extend the timer by as much as 20 seconds, or by giving them a PAK in the 5 seconds will fix them. Otherwise they are still going to be dead regardless.

You're tests are valid for the Prevent Insta Death settings, as long as you don't get damaged whilst unconscious you will remain unconscious or wake up again depending on and still having applicable wounds and bleed out.
My point was that the Revive settings were not the cause of the data you recorded.


Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:58 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Retested with ACE 3.6.1
Prevent Insta Death – Enabled
Enable Revive – Disabled
 
a. one shot from rhs ak to the head from 5m - unconscious alive, awakes by himself
b. frag grenade at 2m - unconscious alive, awakes by himself
c. IED(UrbanSmall) – dead
b. frag grenade at the feet  - dead
e. MH-6 Littlebird crash – dead
f. player is near jackal. Jackal explodes from RPG – loosing blood fast. Dead/alive 50/50 – depending on how fast medic reacts.
g. player is inside jackal. Jackal explodes from RPG - unconscious alive, awake by himself
 
I think it is worth a try.


Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:03 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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After seeing people insta deathed with shots to the arms or legs, I think it's worth a try.


Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:48 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Sounds interesting Mastero. 
Can you post screenshots of your ace medical module settings please?


Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:45 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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I took settings from your Hearts & Minds v20 mission. Only changes Prevent Insta Death – Enabled.

P.S. Also i disabled for AI to go unconscious but this is irrelevant.

See Ya Around


Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:07 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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So what was this bit about?

Mastero wrote:
but set revivetimer to 5sec


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